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Tuesday, February 17, 2009

Guantanamo

I spent the evening with someone who recently came back from a visit to Guantanamo Bay.

The first thing he said was that the biggest health problem facing the detainees at Guantanamo is obesity. They are better fed, better cared for, and better treated than most have them have been at any time in their lives. Contrary to being the center of the torture universe, Guantanamo has very strict regulations that guide their actions. “It’s the carrot and the stick thing, and I have nothing but carrots,” said one of the guards. “I have no sticks.”

Many of the prisoners have been known to prepare something known as “the Cocktail.” The Cocktail is made up of whatever loathsome materials are accessible to these guys. Given their limited resources, that means whatever their own bodies can produce. The Cocktail consists of various parts blood, urine, feces, and semen. One of the female guards, on her first night on duty, was hit in the face with a Cocktail, which was thrown through the wire mesh laid over the bars of the cells. This guard went out, showered up, and went right back on duty to demonstrate her unwillingness to be intimidated.

New detainees are kept in isolation with nothing but a bare cell and a Koran. As they demonstrate their capacity to avoid trouble, they’re brought into contact with other prisoners and given extended privileges – more time outdoors, for instance. During interrogations, prisoners are seated in large, overstuffed chairs, with their ankles chained to the table so that they can’t lunge forward and injure the guards. The detainees begin by talking about how they were innocent goat herders who were gathered up by mistake. So the interrogators then begin talking about seemingly innocuous things, like their family and their hometowns. These conversations extend over periods of weeks and months, allowing the military to piece together details and use them in conversations with other inmates to leverage more information. It’s not that difficult to recognize the al-Qaeda hierarchy, as it manifests itself within Guantanamo in ways identical to how these people operated outside of Guantanamo. They operate according to the command structure within the Guantanamo walls.

Case in point: On one occasion, the guards were concerned that one of the detainees was blocking the surveillance camera in their cell. Someone was sent to investigate, and he ended up slipping on the floor in the cell on a sticky, smelly sea of Cocktail ingredients, after which he was battered within an inch of his life. The prisoners had unscrewed several long, fluorescent light bulbs over the course of several months, and they were using them as clubs to assault their captors. This operation took weeks, if not months, to plan in advance. The goal was not escape or even humiliation of the guards. It was to goad the Americans into finally killing one of the inmates, which would provoke an international incident. So far, the detainees have not been able to convince an American to execute one of them. It’s not for lack of trying.

The question remains unanswered: what do we do with these people? No prison in the United States wants them. Even Fort Leavenworth, the military detention center, has said it is not equipped to handle prisoners like this.

We can’t send them back to their own countries, either. Even the Amnesty International types recognize that Middle Eastern countries are far less forgiving than we are. If handed back to their home governments, these people will be genuinely tortured and killed, usually as part of the same gruesome process. If they’re released into the wild, so to speak, they return to their natural habitat. The number two al-Qaeda operative in Yemen was once a resident at Guantanamo Bay.

President Obama has decided to close Guantanamo. It will make all the Bush-bashers happy, but it creates more problems than it solves. It also puts American lives at risk.

This may prove to be the single most ill-advised decision he will make in his presidency.

20 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Petition to transfer GITMO detainees to Federal Prison 6.5 miles away from Hollywood, CA:

http://www.petitiononline.com/GuaToMDC/petition.html

February 17, 2009 at 7:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your guard friend sounds as convincing to me as Col. Jessup: "You can't handle the truth." (terrific movie, btw)

Just for the sake of argument, assume your guard friend was doing something other than over-feeding the prisoners and forcing them to sit in overstuffed chairs. Do you think he would be boasting about it to you or anyone else in the public?

Just wondering.

POUNDS

February 17, 2009 at 10:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you kidding me? I'm sorry, you're usually very intelligent, but you seem to have really, really lost your marbles here and not a little of your credibility if you're going to try to justify a torture-center.

February 18, 2009 at 3:43 AM  
Blogger Elder Samuel Bennett said...

I don't have a "guard friend." The tall, bald, gangly man I spoke to last night was not a guard at Guantanamo, nor did his report come from the rank and file. He had visited Guantanamo along with several representatives of the European Union, all of whom refused to issue a statement based on what they had seen there, as they were afraid it might damage their political careers to acknowledge that Guantanamo is not the "torture center" that the Olbermanns of the world have made it out to be.

Every inch of the interaction with the prisoners at Guantanamo is filmed and documented. You can debate as to whether waterboarding, a technique used on precisely three high-level al Qaeda operatives for about thirty seconds in each case, is torture, but to call Guantanamo a "torture center" is to misrepresent the facts.

February 18, 2009 at 7:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gitmo may not be a torture zone (and given its inmates, torture would be the least of my worries), but it is a grey zone. That the Bush Administration left it so is a failure on their part. They should have gotten some sort of lasting legal resolution, or started turning the perps back over to their point of origin for proper disposal.

And I mean "disposal" in the most chilling sense of the term. Don't like it? Too bad. That's a necessary consequence of keeping ourselves involved in the affairs of barbarians.

February 18, 2009 at 8:34 AM  
Blogger Elder Samuel Bennett said...

"Grey" in what sense, Derek? I'm not sure if you're referring to the treatment of the prisoners or the legality of the entire enterprise.

February 18, 2009 at 8:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If they want to torture these guys, just force them to watch Michael Moore's documentaries.

February 18, 2009 at 9:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, Pounds, I am curious as to what you would do about the detainees in Guantanamo?

I'm not looking for comments about whether they should be there in the first place. I'd like to know how you think Obama should proceed.

Thanks in advance for responding.

February 18, 2009 at 9:34 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Thank you for your brilliant analysis. Sadly, liberals do not believe/understand/accept that we are at war, and that this is a matter of survival. Whatever goes on in Gitmo is like Disneyland compared to the brutal torture that is common in the Middle East. This is life or death, and we don't have time for liberal coddling of these bloodthirsty mass murderers. Luckily, Obama at least realizes it's going to take some time to figure what to do with these killers, so at least he has broken yet another campaign promise to yet again continue in the footsteps of the great President George W. Bush. Let's just hope he continues to see the light of reality.

February 18, 2009 at 9:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stallion,

While I admire the person who talked to you.... let me get this straight:

At some point a "cocktail" was thrown at a guard (or guards).

That guard ("G") told someone ("A") about the event.

"A" then told "B" (who told you).

You ("C") then told us about it.

I would make that fourth-level hearsay of an unsworn statement from an unidentified/anonymous person.

Your "friend's" credibility is not the question. He is the last link in the chain. (Well, technically you are.)

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if much of the account is actually true, but so what?

Questions for you and some others:

1) To guarantee that a 9/11 attack would never happen to us again, would you abolish Habeus Corpus? (just yes or no... please don't tell me about Lincoln.).

2) To guarantee that a 9/11 attack would never happen to us again, would you abolish the first amendment?

note to George: That cannot be answered by me, since the government has kept secret so much information about these guys. Sorry. Maybe, if we had taken them to trial there would be a way for that to be answered.

February 18, 2009 at 10:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, that was me.

POUNDS

February 18, 2009 at 10:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, that was me.

POUNDS

February 18, 2009 at 10:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stallion,

I'm Derek.

It's grey in the sense that the prisoners were neither criminal prisoners in the traditional sense (subject to all the protections of the Constitution), or given Geneva convention coverage. So their status is still unclear. When are these guys going to be released? When the war's over? When's that? How can we tell it's over? Some are released early? Why? Lack of evidence? On what grounds?

A lot of this isn't nailed down, and, in fairness, that's due to awkward situation itself, but a leader should still try to come up with something lasting, and Bush just didn't do that.

Also, it was manifestly clear years ago that a significant portion of the population was unhappy with this set up, and should his party lose power, all of this could be overturned. Thus it was all the more incumbent on him to get Democratic movers and shakers to sign on to some sort of agreement. If that's not possible, then return the Gitmos to sender for disposal.

Of course, the best solution is simply extricate ourselves from the region altogether. But that'll happen on about the 12th of Never.

February 18, 2009 at 10:37 AM  
Blogger C.Jay said...

All I need to say is that I agree with your post. Closing Gitmo is a move that years from now will be in the regret column.

The United States is not involved in torture for torture sake. That behavior is completely disgusting. However, enhanced interrogation to save my life, or perhaps yours, is warranted. Do the ends justify the means? When we are talking about American lives, I think they do.

It can be argued that international law prevents such tactics. Well, perhaps some of those rights were forfeited when the terrorists decided to break those same laws. The old adage, "You can't have your cake and eat it too" can be applied to the protection of terrorists rights.

I am not, as I said above, in favor in torturing someone for the sake of seeing them hurt. I am in favor of protecting the lives of those I love, and this great country, at the cost of some discomfort to those who would seek to destroy the American way of life, and life itself.

February 18, 2009 at 11:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Come on, Pounds, give me your opinion. I'm not looking for deep analysis, and I recognize that neither you nor I have all the pertinent information that one would need to effectively answer the question. I'm looking for a thoughtful opinion from someone who leans to the left on the political spectrum, and, based on what I know of you, you certainly are one to provide such thoughtful analysis. I'm not looking for a debate here -- I'm just curious. Thanks!

February 18, 2009 at 12:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay George,

I will do my best to respond.

First, though, let me recommend a website to you (and Stallion).

http://humanrights.ucdavis.edu/projects/the-guantanamo-testimonials-project/index

The Guantanamo Testimonials Project does NOT take any position on whether the detainees are guilty or not (neither do I, by the way). It simply relates testimony about what has happened there.

Testimonials are from the following categories (with multiple testimonies from different people in each category).

Testimonies of the Prisoners
Testimony of a Chaplain

Testimonies of FBI Agents
Testimonies of the Red Cross

Testimonies of the Defense Department
Testimony of a Marine

Testimonies of Prosecution Lawyers

Testimonies of Defense Lawyers

Testimonies of Interrogators
Testimony of an Interrogation Log


Testimonies of CSRT Officers

Testimonies of Military Guards


Testimony of a Translator
Testimony of a CIA Asset


Testimony of Military Physicians

Testimony of Other Physicians


Testimonies of Standard Operating Procedures

Testimony of Foreign Intelligence Personnel


Testimony of the Department of Justice

Testimonies of Military Psychologists


Testimony of Foreign Affairs Officials

Other Testimonies


NOW.... IF I HAD TO MAKE A DECISION IMMEDIATELY ON WHAT TO DO WITH THE PRISONERS:

Nothing is more un-American (in my opinion) than the thought of the United States government locking people away without even affording them trials.

So, if forced to make a decision, without the the benefit of all the information that has been withheld by the government, I would say: PUT THEM ON TRIAL RIGHT NOW.... OR LET THEM GO!!!!

(As for the place of location pending their immediate trial: I would hold them in the nearest available local jail.... just as other defendants are held.)

That is what you asked for, I think. At least I hope so.

February 18, 2009 at 1:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, I did it again.

That was me,

POUNDS

February 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pounds,

Thank you. I appreciate your perspective. I will check out that website.

February 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM  
Blogger The Wiz said...

Get....THE COMFY CHAIR!!!!!!

February 18, 2009 at 5:32 PM  
Blogger Lionel Braithwaite said...

Many of the prisoners have been known to prepare something known as “the Cocktail.” The Cocktail is made up of whatever loathsome materials are accessible to these guys. Given their limited resources, that means whatever their own bodies can produce. The Cocktail consists of various parts blood, urine, feces, and semen. One of the female guards, on her first night on duty, was hit in the face with a Cocktail, which was thrown through the wire mesh laid over the bars of the cells.

Considering how they were treated by your lord and master, Bush, I really can't blame them for throwing shit at the guards. It's the same thing IRA prisoners did 30 years ago in Northern Ireland prisons. If your friend can't stand it, he should protest to his CO or to the President himself.

February 24, 2009 at 7:19 PM  

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